Chain oilers again – what goes around……..

If you look at the “Tutoro” tag, you’ll find the old post where I fitted the chain oiler in the first place. As an inveterate “fiddler” I wanted to improve it somehow – and I have always been drawn to the other inexpensive chainoiler, the Loobman. As it is sub £20 I bought a Loobman anyway. As many reviews will confirm, the delivery method to the chain is a little “Heath Robinson” but the way the bottle delivers a measured amount of oil is quite neat. The Tutoro reservoir was fitted quite high on the bike so I fitted the Loobman bottle low down behind the passenger footpeg giving me a much shorter “run” of tubing. What’s more, as the Tutoro delivery system was working fine I left it in place and ended up with a hybrid system of Loobman reservoir and Tutoro pipework.

This was my working system for a month or so and it was fine – at least until the bottle fell off to be lost forever somewhere between Dunstable and Newbury. Rather than returning to the Tutoro reservoir, I decided to give up on chain oilers and simply reverted to spraying chain lube at intervals. I had plenty of the white chain wax from before I'd fitted the Tutoro so that was sprayed liberally over the chain

One of the things that has always plagued me with my GP800 has been “noises off”. However sweet the engine is, I have always suffered from driveline noises of one kind or another. There was the dreaded “Strangled Sealion” noise ( I credit the X9 Owners Club for the phrase – I note a post on Modern Vespa forum that failed to do so !) which in my case was caused by a loose clutch nut and there is also chain noises which have been the bane of my life.

Soon after the events above, I noticed more driveline noises. It was a graunchy rotating noise and quite frankly sounded expensive and definitely mechanical – like a bearing about to give up. I posted on a thread on the GP800 sub forum at X9 Owners Club and found that the final drive pinion oil level may not have been topped up properly at service (thanks JimC). A quick removal of the passenger footrest and a squirt of gear oil from a childs medicine syringe cured that one (the level was a little low) but the graunchy grind was still present.

In a fit of desperation, I slackened the chain (way more than recommended) to see if reducing the strain on the driveline made any difference to the noise – surprisingly it did, but not by a lot. By now I was resigned to taking it somewhere with a blank cheque but as a final thought, I completely cleaned the chain removing all the white chain wax and manually lubricated the chain with Scottoiler oil that I used in the Loobman. This time I re-adjusted the chain correctly to spec.

Result – silence J

Well almost – it still clanks a bit when being pushed backwards but the horrible mechanical grating has gone. Even now, a few days later, I struggle to comprehend how something as basically simple as a stiff chain could make such a terminal sounding noise. I’m guessing that over time, the chain has stretched slightly unevenly and this will be cured by the (scarily expensive) chain replacement at the next service (18,000 miles).

Either way, I should have listened to myself by re-reading my earlier post (18^th Feb 2009) when I recommended against wax type chain lube – So here it is again – for me as much as any other GP800 owners out there

DON’T USE WAX TYPE CHAIN LUBE ON A GP800

Of course, YMMV, FWIW, IMHO, IANAL, ROFL, ETC and I may not have helped matters by either using too much of the white chain wax, or layering it up over time by not cleaning off the old wax before re-applying- but the advice above stands.

So, it's back to the Tutoro reservoir. fitted lower down where the Loobman bottle lived - which gives a much shorter tube run an d reduces the headache of priming. Even if you allow the oil to run out, the total amount of oil in the system is much less and just refilling the reservoir self-primes quite happily.

Listening to a GP800 provides the best way of knowing when it’s “right and tight”. If you close the throttle from about 35-40mph, as the speed falls away, between 30mph and 20mph the engine becomes almost inaudible and the only noise you can hear sounds like a coasting London Underground (tube) train. Of course if you’re not a Londoner that will be meaningless to you – but the noise is quite distinct, a comforting “whirring” sound.

As an aside, the noises from the rear were so severe that they masked another new noise that I’m ashamed to say I missed. I had always been surprised by the fact that my rear pads had never been replaced as I tend to favour the rear brake (despite it being the naturally clutch side for me). I had even unequally adjusted the lever reach to try to force me to split my braking in favour of the front brakes.

The pads have been replaced now !

Although I was concerned at the possibility that the allen keyed pins might have seized necessitating calliper replacement (eek – thanks again JimC) the task was remarkably straightforward – especially since I was suffering from “Housemaids Knee” at the time. I guess that’s testament to the original Thomsons quality of PDI which involved a great deal of dismantling and Copaslip before I took delivery. Not quite “BMW Brembo” simples but no real grief. The only problem was that the hole in the inner pad for the pin to slide through was slightly too small (probably by the thickness of its paint) requiring a simple ream out by hand with a drill bit.

Whew, that’s a long entry. I really must get round to updating this blog more often.

GP800 Rear Sprocket Problem (loose)

So, the cause of my clanking is confirmed as a loose sprocket – as it was when I had the tyres fitted. One of the bolts had sheared off at the head. This time it was worse and the bolts simply didn’t want to tighten up in situ.

I removed the rear wheel (a relatively straightforward job) with the intention of removing and refitting the sprocket (replacing the sprocket if the holes had elongated in any way).

This is where the fun started. Despite being loose enough to allow a degree of rotational movement in the sprocket, the bolts were simply too difficult to turn in either direction. Remembering that the are already weakened by the action of the rotating sprocket, I applied localised heat and very gentle (but maximum) force with the result that a further three sheared to go with the one that had already done so.

Only one came out cleanly. This revealed the cause of the problem as well as a paradox. The entire thread had been liberally coated with enough threadlock/superglue to keep the propeller on the QE2. I still can’t figure out how they became loose in the first place. This was of course compounded by the natural action of a steel bolt to seize in an aluminium thread.

As the wheel was already out of the bike, I lifted the carrier off the cush rubbers and headed for my mate in Potters Bar who is equipped with a bench, a sturdy vice and a set of “Easy-Outs”. Even with further application of maximum heat, and being drilled clean through these bolts were not coming out – with the inevitable result that the Easy Out snapped.

The carrier then went to CAM Engineering in Potters Bar http://www.camauto.com/cameng.html – it would have been fairly straightforward for them to drill out the sheared bolts – but the broken Easy Out added another dimension to the problem and increased the estimated cost to “up to” £75.

I checked with http://www.gileraspares.co.uk/ online and a new carrier assembly is £74 – but delivery time is “up to” a month (there’s that “up to” again !)

So, CAM Engineering sorted the original carrier – after removing the broken bolts and repairing the damage, the carrier was drilled right through to allow slightly longer bolts with Nyloc nuts to secure the sprocket - there’s plenty of room behind the sprocket so I can’t understand why it wasn’t made that way in the first place.

If there’s a small crumb of comfort in all this, there’s absolutely no discernable wear in the original sprocket – even after 10,000 miles.
Of course in hindsight it might have been better to have taken it in under warranty with a "loose sprocket" but any workshop would have faced the same problems - it would have been their problem not mine and I might have been without the bike even longer (let alone the inconvenience of taking it there in the first place). This way although it cost money I was back on the road more quickly. At the end of the day the fault lies with Piaggio for supergluing the bloody bolts in the first place.

GP800 - Chain Noise

This weekend the OE fit Michelin Pilot Sport SCs were replaced by a pair of Pirelli Diablos – more on that story later. While at Essential Rubber in Hackney, the guys there noticed that the rear sprocket was not tight against the carrier. This answers my question from an earlier post, here was the true cause of the noise that I had incorrectly diagnosed as a chain noise (at least I could tell it was final drive related).

The risk in these circumstances is that the holes in the sprocket will elongate as well as wearing the bolts themselves – to the point that they will eventually snap. Further investigation and comparison with a new sprocket revealed that the holes had not elongated and that the bolts were not damaged. A quick application of a spanner to the bolts has completely cured the noise.

I’ll be keeping an eye on that one !

GP800 - The TUTORO Chain Oiler

The TUTORO arrived in two days, neatly packed and looking like a first rate piece of kit (as always, click on the pictures for a larger version).

It's a very simple affair, but the package includes plenty of cable ties, small rubber blocks to go behind the reservoir, a couple of sticky pads and a syringe to make filling the reservoir easier. The instructions are clear and well written in proper English.

After removing the passenger footrest bracket, the trim panel and of course the chainguard I could get a good idea of how to mount the device. I had originally planned to mount the reservoir behind the number plate but quickly realised that there were two flaws with that plan. Firstly, although it would have been a neat solution, refilling the reservoir would have been tricky even with a syringe and secondly, the delivery tube would have had to drop vertically then curve up again significantly to run it forward before dropping down towards the swinging arm.

The obvious place was on the silver trim panel that runs down to the rear indicator and number plate mount and simply unscrewing this panel allowed the cable ties to be run behind it. It looks quite good but I may look to find an even neater solution.

From here the delivery tube ducks behind the panel and runs forward under the fuel tank. There is an inner rear mudguard and the pipe tucks behind that before looping round the swinging arm pivot. It drops below the swinging arm and is cable tied to the chainguard bracket to route it backwards towards the rear sprocket.

I wondered about whether it was better to drop the oil onto the top of the chain running forwards to the gearbox sprocket or on the lower (inner) edge of the chain and settled for the latter - my reasoning is that the greater diameter of the rear sprocket should help to squeeze the oil out and spread it more efficiently around the chain.

The cable ties make it easy to position the delivery tube and the final narrow outlet has a slight curve to it. By simply rotating the delivery tube before tightening the cable ties you can ensure that the drops of oil fall exactly where you want them.

Filling the reservoir was simplicity itself. The instructions say that you need to prime the delivery tube first and that this might take some time. If fact it would have taken about a week even with the "tap" fully open! I removed the delivery tube from the reservoir and primed it directly with the syringe then reconnected it to the reservoir. I've used chainsaw oil as it's designed to resist flinging off (£6 for a litre in B & Q) but it's thin enough not to "clag up" the chain.

Once it was all set up, I opened up the tap two full turns and watched for the drip. Exactly as described, a small droplet formed on the end of the delivery tube and dropped perfectly onto the chain.

For now, I've adjusted it to deliver a drop every 10 seconds and I will see how that lasts on my journey to work (about 35 mins). As it's a fully manual system, my plan is to judge the delivery so that the TUTORO empties itself in one journey. Then if I forget to turn it off (quite likely !) it will not continue to drip over the car park floor (or tyre) once I get to work. Of course if that means a labourious re-priming of the delivery tube each time, I may just have to get into the habit of turning it off as part of my locking up routine.

Before refitting the chainguard, I readjusted the chain and set it back to the correct "factory" deflection as I may have to accept that Piaggio do know what they are doing there - having reduced the slack I found that the chain was even noisier after a trip to Milton Keynes.

Here's the final look with the chainguard refitted. It looks pretty neat and apart from the reservoir, the only visible sign is just at the leading edge of the chainguard. I'm very pleased so far, fitting was straightforward, settign up easy (once I had primed the tube) and it appears to do exactly what it is supposed to do - for under £15

GP800 - Chains again

As the chain final drive is one of the defining features of the GP800, it generates a lot of interest.
Recently I've noticed a clanking/slapping/rattling from the rear of the bike at slow speed. I reckon that this is a combination of two things.

1. The "by the book" chain adjustment is too slack - I've mentioned this in an earlier post.


2. Thick "wax type" chain lube.

I am unfamiliar with modern chaincare methods and I was told that chain lube comes in two basic types - thin and penetrating (but not long lasting) or thick and clingy (which requires less rider effort). As a naturally lazy person I have been opting for the latter - but I think this compunds the problem and my conclusion is emprical rather than reasoned.

By thoroughly cleaning the chain with WD40 (Google "WD40 Chain" to get about a million hits on the subject - it's hotly debated) and then lubricating with thin oil, the noises go away completely. Of course the problem is that this only works for a day or so - and constant maintenance is not my idea of fun.

This means that a chain oiler has to feature in my future.

Initially, I looked into the Scottoiler but it's expensive and requires a vacuum take off from somewhere in the induction system. I've had some recent issues with ECU mapping and cutting out so that's not a route I fancy. I had also discovered the Loobman – a seriously “bottom end” piece of kit. £18 “all in” - and some seem to rate it quite highly. It does however appear a bit “Heath Robinson” and a trawl around a number of forums seemed to suggest that it can be fiddly to get it set up right.

http://www.chainoiler.co.uk/

Never one give up unitl I’ve wasted at least a couple of days trawling the internet, I found some other options. Accumen make an electronic system but it’s over £100. It claims to be clever, altering the flow rate relative to speed, but £100 buys a lot of cans of chain lube.

http://www.acumen-electronics.co.uk/category/Chain_Lubrication/CL10_Chain_Oilers___Remote_Kits

There’s also the “Pro-Oiler” and the “Cameleon” as well as the Motrax “lubetronic”. I had just about decided to risk £18 on the Loobman and live with having to play about a bit when I discovered the TUTORO at the very similarly URL’d

http://www.chainoiler.org.uk

This one’s even cheaper at £14.99 “all in” and doesn’t even purport to have any form of automation. It’s simply a neat(ish) manual drip solution. The advantage of this one is that you just set/judge the flow rate for your normal journey and only fill the reservoir accordingly. I won’t remember to fill it/use it as often as I should, but I reckon for £15 it’s a better option than infrequent spraying with gloop. The clincher for purchase is that when I e-mailed them to ask them to “justify themselves” against the Loobman, they responded within 2 hours with a proper personal reply, not a standard document – and I’m all for supporting small cottage industries in this country.

Further news when it's fitted.

GP800 - Chain Adjustment

I guess that a lot of GP800 owners (and potential owners) will be upgrading from another scooter. Others like me will be BMW riders looking for an alternative. Few are likely to be defecting from ownership of an R1, 'Blade or GSX-R or even a Fazer, Bandit or Hornet.

The upshot of this is that there will be many GP800 owners faced with something they have not had to consider for a long time - if at all, the adjustment of the final drive chain.

The rear axle has a 28mm nut on one side and the other side has a hex soxcket to take an allen key to lock it to prevent it rotating when undoing the nut. Unfortunately, this socket is 22mm so you are unlikely to have a big enough allen key to do the job. Fortunatley, HPS come to the rescue with a simple socket adaptor. Until I bought the adaptor, I could only hold the axle with a box spanner - although it did the job it did not provide a particularly good fit in the socket. http://www.bikehps.com/acatalog/BikeHPS_OnlineStore_Workshop_Tools_97.html came to the rescue with an adaptor. I also took the opportunity to buy a new 28mm scoket and a 22mm socket for use with the adaptor. http://www.tooled-up.com/ supplied these very swiftly and efficiently at a good price.

According to the book, you check and adjust the chain with the bike on the centrestand. You first remove the chainguard and you are looking for a chain deflection of 38mm (+/- 2mm) to a specified point on the swinging arm.

This does seem to fly in the face of conventional wisdom but I guess the guys at Piaggio must know what they're doing as it seems about right - I have to say that I think they're slightly on the slack side but their calculations seem to allow for the take up of the suspension quite well.

Incidentally, if anyone's wondering about chain life, it slackened phenomenally in the first 2,000 miles and has barely needed more than a tweak since. That was always the hope (that the transmission would not make it a chain killer) but it's nice to be confirmed. I'm now at 4,500 miles and have no chain issues.